Amazon.co.uk
Amazon.com29 April 2008
How to steal a life
How must it feel to be Elizabeth Fritzl? How must it feel to be her mother?
In this nightmarish tale of abduction, rape and abuse in Austria, how does it feel to enter a cellar as a girl and leave as a middle-aged woman?
When Fritzl’s father pushed her into the basement, she was only 18 years old. It was 1986. Now she is 42 and emerges to a very different world.
All that time, she has spent in one tiny space, seeing no-one, never seeing daylight, being raped and beaten, giving birth to child after child - presumably with no pain relief or medical attention.
Aside from the fact that this should never have happened in a civilised society and the trauma she has suffered in being at the mercy of a psychopath, her father has stolen her life.
From 18 to 30 are probably the most tumultuous years in most women’s lives, the years when they find love, marry, have children, become adults rather than children. Fritzl has enjoyed none of this. Her isolated condition in her dank windowless cellar has been far worse than that of a prisoner, who at least would have access to television, books, magazines, and other human beings - a sense of not being lost entirely to the world.
It made me think for a moment about my own life. Between the ages of 18 and 42, I left home, attended university, lost my virginity, experimented with drugs, had my first real love affair, lived out of a trunk, had numerous flatshares, graduated, went to secretarial college, lived with a boyfriend, bought a property, had my first full-time job, learned to drive, became a journalist, lost my father to a heart attack, met my now-husband, got married, bought a house in France and emigrated. For most women, add children to a similar mix and maybe the odd divorce and you have the prime years of an average life. Everyone knows that nothing can make up for what Fritzl has lost in this time, even if she can ever learn to cope with having lived with so much abuse and fear.
Between 1984 and now, the world has also changed enormously. In 1984, did anyone own a mobile phone? Builders and stockbrokers perhaps - a phone the size of a housebrick. Germany had not reunified. China and India were not developing nations. The Soviet Union still existed. There was no Internet, no Facebook, no Google, no YouTube, no Xbox, no flat-screen TVs, virtually no email, DOS instead of Windows, hardly anyone owned a PC. There was no Starbucks, no Ipods, no satellite TV, no DVDs. The world to which Fritzl is emerging is one she may barely recognise - even the cars are a different shape.
God knows how this woman and her children, and her mother are now to cope with what lies ahead. One can only hope that they get the very best care and counselling available - specialists in PTSD of the kind who have helped other prisoners such as John McCarthy. As for the father, nothing can make up for what he has done, and so the only satisfaction is that hopefully he will die in prison - assuming, of course, that his wife or his neighbours don’t get to him first.
(1) 29 April 2008 at 4:45 pm
Susie
It’s such a ghastly story. I wonder that the poor girl didn’t try to kill him. How on earth did he manage to keep all those souls down there, and feed them, without anybody suspecting? What an evil fucking bastard. He should be burned alive.
I just hope that somehow the woman and her children will be able to enjoy some kind of normality after their torture, but it’s going to be very hard.
(2) 29 April 2008 at 5:17 pm
trish
I find it very remarkable that even a psychopath could sustain this degree of evil intent for 24 years. And of course we are focusing on his daughter, but he’s imprisoned the three children down their for their WHOLE lives - they have never had any contact with the outside world at all.
I’m guessing she didn’t kill him because then she wouldn’t be able to get out of the cellar? Or Stockholm syndrome? And perhaps his wife knew he had a cellar but not what was in it, and was too afraid to cross him.
God knows how any human being becomes normal after this, but Holocaust survivors who saw unimaginable terrors, sometimes for years, and who lost entire families still managed somehow to survive and carry on. One can only hope that the help this family will be given is enough.
(3) 30 April 2008 at 5:56 am
Julia
This creature is not human ! Who could do such acts of abuse to his own flesh and blood? An uncivilized creep.
(4) 30 April 2008 at 4:53 pm
nashfy
its really hurting. how could that beast play such a game with his own daudhter. it would be the same if he did that with his mother….wats the difference. may god bless elizabeth and her children
(5) 30 April 2008 at 6:43 pm
Susan Claire
If I were in the Austrian government, I would seriously have building commissioners start looking at all basement permits that included water and/or sewage and make sure they became accessible basements. Maybe places everywhere should do that.
(6) 30 April 2008 at 11:32 pm
Julia
Apparently Fritzl’s wife is denying all knowledge of the cruelties he was inflicting
on his daughter and her children - how did she accept the production of a newly
born child on no less than three occasions? I don’t believe her. She is either
the world’s biggest liar or stupid beyond belief. Where did he get his ideas?
I think he must be one of those rotten Nazis with the “camps” as his training ground. I suspect he is not the only “one who got away”. I suggest he is
pumped full of a truth drug and made to talk.
(7) 1 May 2008 at 9:50 am
trish
I’m not sure we can judge as yet what his wife knew. She was clearly terrified of him and therefore stayed well away from the cellar. I remember at the time of the Yorkshire Ripper killings people thought his wife MUST have known, that there must have been blood on his clothing for instance. But it turned out she was quite a fragile schizophrenic and that he had always done the family washing, so he was able to hide things from her. Psychopaths, which I assume Frizl is, can be very cunning and plausible - none of his neighbours seem to have suspected a thing either. But it does seem amazing that anyone could have accepted the grandkids being dumped on them time and again and not raised a red flag. I guess we will just have to wait and see.
(8) 3 May 2008 at 1:02 am
wendy
I have been abused by my mother and an ex-partner and ex-ex-partner (in ddddifferent ways of course)but i cannot say a lot really except that you never know what your children really go through or what they really think but i pray for every persons every nite in the whole world for god to stop their suffering.
GOD BLESS ELIZABETH FRITZL AND HER CHILDREN(HER MOTHER EVEN SHO MAY WELL HAVE BECOME SO CONTROLLED THAT SHE DARE NOT QUESTION ANYTHING(AS ABUSED VICTUMS ARE IN FEAR FOR THEIR LIVES ASWELL)
HOPE KERSTIN WILL PULL THROUGH AS SHE REALLY DESERVES TO).
My heart goes out to ALL THAT ARE BEING ABUSED-TRY TO GET OUT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE-DO NOT BE AFRAID -CRY OUT,SHOUT OUT,STAND UP TO YOUR BULLY-DO NOT BE AFRAID-WEHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO LOOSE?YOUR LIVES?THINK ABOUT IT.I F I SEE OR THINK ANYONE IS BEING ABUSED AROUND ME I STEP IN AND CONFRONT AS I HAVE BEEN THERE MYSELF AND 99 PERCENT OF PEOPLE WIIL HELP(IT IS HUMAN NATURE0STAND UP TO THE BULLY.
(9) 3 May 2008 at 5:40 am
claire
I have read many comments on this story through which it is apparent that most people have not read the entire information currently available. I speak not to them.
I seek communication with those that have endeavored to assimilate all the available information. I ask this; if some years prior to his Thailand holiday of 3-4 weeks, Josef Fritzl made a telephone call to his wife, impersonating his daughter, was there NOTHING in that phone call that lead her to beleive a man was impersonating her daughter’s voice? That she recognised no trace of a voice with which she shared a decade-plus long history?
I have difficulty believing that any mature male could impersonate the voice of a much younger female. Then again, maybe he is more intelligent than I suspect. Maybe Rosemarie was in deeper denial than I suspect.
Frighteningly, I believe this man to be completely sane, if empathetically bankrupt.
Given the above, or even not, IF ANY MEMBER OF YOUR FAMILY had forbidden you to enter an area of your own property, and then went on holiday overseas (for an undisclosed period) WOULD YOU NOT RISK HEAVEN AND HIGH WATER TO DETERMINE WHY SAID FAMILY MEMBER FORBADE YOU TO ENTER THAT TERRITORY? Would you not recruit brothers, sons, male friends, anybody with an unknown vested interest to help you? With a husband with a conviction for sexual assualt? Imcomprehensible. Or maybe not.
Fritzl was utterly sane. All evidence points to this. Nobody could have kept this up unless he was: sane. Sane and Evil? That is why we are terrified. Sanity does not preclude selfishness, cruelty, failure of empathy…..
Atheism aside, I pray that Elizabeth Fritzl can assimilate that those of the kind world send all their best energy into her possible recovery, and hope that she is enveloped in an ocean of kindness, love, understanding and emotional intelligence, support and professional help from those who really know. Not that anyone does. What a warrior. Elizabeth is something else for simply surviving, and for cocooning her children from the reality of their situation with all the limited resources she had. Heroine. Survivor. Daughter, mother, sister. You are a hero, albeit damaged, not a victim.
Love, unlimited, claire and alexa
(10) 3 May 2008 at 7:47 am
Rebecca
I shudder to think of all the people in this world who are currently locked in dungeons who have not found a way out, with no-one in the world but their abusers knowing their whereabouts. I agree there should definitely be inspections on all properties to see that no similar abuse sites exist.
I think the father should never be let out of prison and should have to endure a tiny cramped windowless space with no contact from the outside world. Preferably with regular sexual torture. What a disgusting evil bastard.
How terrible that apart from the obvious abuse he was also so neglectful and thoughtless to not provide such basic things like books for the children and Elisabeth to pass away the time, and so now be relatively uneducated. The boredom and the long hours with no even basic exercise equipement must have been dreadful.
Also what a horror for Elisabeth’s mother to realise the man she had married and presumably loved was nothing less than evil personified. How do family members build trust after such experiences I wonder.
But on a more positive note it is wonderful that they are out and away from their misery, and being cared for. I hope that with time their bodies, their hearts and their minds, and their spirits begin to slowly heal. And that they can move on from their terrible past, and find people in this life who show them respect, love, kindness, and generosity, and happiness.
(11) 3 May 2008 at 7:56 am
Rebecca
It’s ok if you want to remove the part of my above text where I suggested the monster be given regular sexual torture. But it is what I think.
I suspect if he isn’t in solitary confinement someone will surely kill him. Look at Jeffrey Darmer’s case - he didn’t last long when he was able to mix with other inmates.
(12) 3 May 2008 at 11:04 am
claire
Yes Rebecca, on whom would you place the onerous task of “regular sexual torture”? Are you personally stepping forward for the task?? Or offering your husband? One of your children to perform the “regular sexual torture” maybe? Congratulations on your generous offer. You are truly one of the enlightened and selfless heroes this world needs.
(13) 3 May 2008 at 11:20 am
claire
And dammit, while I am at it, to state the obvious, there is no “god”. I challenge any deranged individual who disagrees to provide evidence to the contrary. Enough. When we get real, “there will be light”.
(14) 3 May 2008 at 11:22 am
trish
I prefer not to edit people’s comments on this forum, but I do find it interesting that so many people feel vengeful towards this man. There is really no point. Even executing him (and I don’t believe in capital punishment) would not give his daughter and grandchildren back their lost years, or make up for the abuse they have suffered. You cannot make this man suffer enough to make up for the lost lives of four other human beings, any more than you could kill Hitler 30 million times over.
Besides, there is little point in making him suffer at all. Punishment is only useful if people can learn from it, and I think Fritzl is probably beyond the pale - a psychopath, someone who fundamentally does not play by the same rules as the rest of us. The best we can hope for is that he is removed to a place where he can’t harm anyone else. And I also sincerely hope that nature takes its course and he dies soon.
(15) 3 May 2008 at 12:23 pm
Carmen
I do believe that Elizabeth together with her children, qualify greatly to be justly added to the long list of saintly people who were martyred during the persecution of christians in the 3rd century.
And her father?…….. God knows what he deserves.
(16) 5 May 2008 at 5:33 am
Julia
This story has got to me - it seems almost untrue - It’s unbelievable that a father can abuse is own daughter and children grandchildren , keeping them in captivety for all those years and right under everyones noses. It seems the folk chose to ignore signs that indictated something was not right that could of lead to the discovery of Elizabeths true disappearance. That man should not get away with a insanety plea. This man should be sentenced to life in the callar that he built and feed his own balls and penis. My heart is with elizabeth and her children.
(17) 5 May 2008 at 1:17 pm
RAZIEL
- Tho I also think that what has happened here is quite shocking but the writer of the main article is also “strange” to say the least. So you think that by killing Joseph Fritzl (either in jail or by other people) - would solve anything? Crying for vengeance and revenge is simply primitive. Let the lawyers decide what the correct punishment shall be - that’s their job and they are better at it than amateurs like ourselves. It’s just a sidenote that Joseph could really be mentally ill person who did not even realize the weight of his deeds and no matter how you’d torture him it’d be like torturing an animal who just follows it’s instincts - he’d feel the pain but he wouldn’t be able to understand the reason… No sane person could keep his act up the way he did for 24 years whithout getting caught. He is a unique psychopath “con artist” in the criminal history of rapism…
- On the ther hand Elisabeth was NOT completely isolated, she had a radio and a TV, so all your statement about “falling back into a totall new world” is absolutely a nonsense. If you watch TV you can keep track of world events, new technological inventions and everything else. So she won’t be surprised by let’s say a cell-phone…..
- And one last thing: praying for God now is ridiculous. Yes, let me make it clear I’m an atheist. If there’d be a God do you think he would have let the girl suffer for 24 years? If the answer is “YES” then God is not a single bit better than Elisabeth’s twisted, psychopath father. (And let’s not start talking about the starvation problem in Africa and the inborn genetical diseases - when one is supposed to be born as an innocent being without sins…) . Do you think that if you pray God will give her back her 24 years? Religius fanatics like you should go and blow yourselves up for your “God” like Muslims do…… Religion is for those weak hearted idiots who can’t accept the fact that you’ve only got one chance to live and once the “game is over” there is no “second round” in Heaven… Accept it - we are mortals and we’ll never be immortals neither on Earth nor anywhere else….
(18) 5 May 2008 at 1:33 pm
trish
Well, isn’t that interesting? It’s always intrigued me that people can read something and misunderstand it so completely. As anyone who read this thoroughly would see, I have not suggested at any point that anyone should kill Josef Fritzl (though it wouldn’t surprise me if someone did). I have not suggested vengeance as any kind of valid reaction, as you will see from comment 14. And as an atheist, humanist, member of the British Humanist Association and member of the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science, I’m hardly likely to be praying to anybody’s god anytime soon. I know there are some peculiar folk on the interwebs, but this rather takes the biscuit.
(19) 5 May 2008 at 4:59 pm
Nicole
But if I were in Elizabeth’s place, I’d hope Josef gets punished for what he’s due. Well, because to me, having known that the perpetrator, who has given me nothing but immense torture is finally paying for his crimes…I think it will have a therapeutic effect on me knowing that my suffering has at least, even though a little, been justified.
(20) 5 May 2008 at 5:49 pm
christine wolf
For as horrible as Elizabeth Fritzl’s fate was there are still a few saving graces to be found in her story. For one thing the television set in the basement was a definite asset for both her and her children. Because of it they should have been able to keep up to a degree at least with some of the world’s news, changes and gadgets in society. Also the fact that she knew where she was, in the basement of the family home, with her mother and her other children upstairs may have given her some degree of comfort. You have to remember that this is a “family crime” and she was familiar with her perpetrator having known him since birth. That is vastly different from being victimized by a complete stranger in an unfamiliar location. The worst part of her incarceration may have been in the beginning when she was left in that dungeon alone for 5 years with visits only from her rapist father. Then when her children started coming she had them for companionship. It appears even at the end she still had a modicum of respect toward Joseph Fritzl. In the note she attached to Kerstin’s clothing she said “my father is the only person she knows”. She did not use a derogatory term for him. We also do not know to what extent Joseph Fritzl was affectionate to his daughter. Most abusers have a very charming, endearing side to them which many abused women cling to inspite of the abuse. I think some of these factors combined may have explained why Elizabeth was able to endure for so long. From the previous comments it appears that everyone wants that “pound of flesh” from Joseph Fritzl’s hide as punishment for what he did. I hate what he did also but is there anyone out there who would really want to be him? It doesn’t sound like the life he was living was anymore enviable than the one he imposed on his daughter. Most sadistic psychopaths are miserable creatures.
(21) 6 May 2008 at 1:11 pm
amber
I have been so sickened by this entire ordeal. I am eating up every news article I can because for some reason I need to know that the children raised in the basement are going to be okay. It is unimaginable to spend your entire life in 3 tiny rooms. I have read that Elizabeth and her eldest son walk hunched over due to the short ceiling and that for at least 9 years the cellar only consisted of 1 or 2 rooms. Does this mean the eldest children witnessed their mother being repeatedly raped? THe mind is an amazing thing- but how can these children ever overcome the scope of what has happened to them? This was their entire world and all they knew and that is what sickens me. What do you do night after night day after day in a tiny dungeon with no books. No one knows how long they have had a TV and does it really matter? What those children seen on TV was pure fantasy. To us it is reality because it is what we know. I just pray that this family is given every opportunity to enjoy every minute of the rest of their lives. They deserve it . Josef Fritzl is not insane. He is pure evil.
(22) 6 May 2008 at 6:20 pm
sandie
I would like to comment on the revenge/punishment/rot in hell attitude. Whilst I agree the man is not worth the flesh he lives in (in most peoples opinions) and we all abhor his abusive, torturing, confining, and rapist attitudes…..we express in ourselves (some of us) the desire to commit the same acts on him as he committed on his daughter, (and no doubt his wife emotionally at least). Does that not make us no better than him???? I don’t think revenge is sweet and I couldn’t bring myself to commit any of the above mentioned acts on the man….no matter how bad he is. A quick execution would remove him from society….at minimal cost, and jailing him under tolerable conditions for the remainder of his life would be a more expensive option that still removes the risk of his reoffending. But for those of you who express the desire for sexual torture, cutting off of certain body parts, placing him in a dank cell without light and torturing him etc……I think you are, in your darker places, perhaps closer to him than you might like to admit. I know that this will offend many of you, but I do not believe such actions are EVER justified….regardless of whether the victim was previously a perpetrator or not! I too do not believe there is a GOD….we all have one chance….and to blow that chance with a poor attitude is just as bad, in my opinion, as is blowing it with poor actions…..’nuf said (for now.)
(23) 7 May 2008 at 12:59 am
Julia
Isn’t punishment a type of revenge?
(24) 7 May 2008 at 1:26 am
Julia
Is this man insane or not? He knew exactly what he was doing- he planned it. In my opinion, an insane person would not get away with this secret and suspicous activities for so long, they would of slipped up. An insane person doesn’t know right from wrong. He knew he was doing wrong , why hide it? Whether he is insane or not, should he ever be allowed to live amoungst society, again? Will he do it again? He’s a violent rapist.
(25) 7 May 2008 at 2:18 am
sandie
Julia, I do believe punishment is a form of revenge. I prefer that we either remove someone from society, because they place others at risk with their behaviors, or rehabilitate them…..I don’t see either of these options as revenge or punishment….both options concern themselves with ensuring the safety of society or particular members of said society. Punishment is revenge, payback, retribution, (sp?) or whatever else you want to call it…..punishment is what our whole justice system is based on, and it is wholefully ineffective, in my opinion. Just my humble opinion by the way.
(26) 8 May 2008 at 11:40 pm
Irene
I just want to thank everyone for your comments, whether atheists or not.
I particularly like the thought that perhaps Elizabeth CAN have those 24 years restored. I am a Christian, not for the next life, but for the total perfect love Jesus has given me in this one. A man has shown me 100% total sacrificial love!
It says in the Bible “God will restore the years the locusts have eaten” when we come to Him and truly believe. Here and now I pray for Elizabeth that those 24 years will be miraculously restored to her, not forgetting that Job had double restored of everything that was taken from him in order to make him totally perfect and ready for an eternity in a perfect Heaven.(I also accept there`s a heaven.)I look forward to meeting Elizabeth there, and I also pray that God will give me the grace to forgive her father. Please help me God with that! “Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.” Evil exists but for a short time in this world in order that true love can form in us for eternity. God did not want robots - and none of you are !
I am sure Elizabeth must have found Jesus in order to survive… surely ? I did -and I only met a few nasty, selfish men - none as bad as Elizabeth`s father.
(27) 9 May 2008 at 4:36 pm
Cori
I will not write of what already happened, I will try to put some words to help all of us, who are very hurt by this story. yes, It should be tied to the known past, but about the future. It hurt me so much that i must stop my work sometimes and at night i sometimes just can’t sleep. I hope by hart the Autrian authorities, medical assistances and all involved will be successfull in helping them with taking them back smootlly to the acctual world, but please with no pain if possible. Don’t think of recovering the lost time. There is plenty of time if you take a whole life in account. I’m sure there are million good people praying for them. As good willing people we would conitnue knowing some news of their recovering progress, but please keep out of the humiliant censacionalism stuff of photograph waiting until they leave the hospital. I was very happy when i read that as the mother didn’t get crazy by all that time of “prision”, she probably will be strong to help her schildren. So i will continue praying for all the victims of this true bad story.
(28) 10 May 2008 at 12:22 am
Sarah
So,Raziel,having a radio and tv means that Elizabeth wasn’t totally isolated? Yes,what a great comfort that is.
I can’t believe some of you are getting up in arms over some of use wanting to see that sick perverted bastard suffer for what he did.Since when has the judical system ever managed to hand out appropriate sentences for such vile crimes? I would happily see this sick monster suffer the most severe punishment.There is no punishment even fitting anything for this…though slow torture would be a start.
(29) 10 May 2008 at 12:25 am
Sarah
Raziel,sanctamonious athetists like you are as bad as those religious fanatics you speak of.People like you who say there is no God because there is no proof of one,yet there is no proof there isn’t either.No,I’m not a “religious fanatic”,I’m agnostic,actually.
(30) 10 May 2008 at 1:06 am
sas
At the end of the day, this crime (that i have to admit is so abhorrent that i am thinking of it every morning, noon and night) is caused fundamentally by selfishness.The evil father wanted everything- and took the most precious thing he could for a quarter of a centuryI believe he knew exactly what he was doing was wrong at every moment.He planned it extremely well and managed to execute so fearfully, that noone dared question him.
It concerns me that such people breathe the same air that i do. He should be treated in a similar manner. Learn fear, loneliness, a cramped cell with no sunlight, beatings and pain. Please don’t fail this poor woman and her children, learned people of Austria. The world is watching this case and you and your countrie’s reputation relies on the proper outcome. God bless Elizabeth and her children.I wish i could add the mother, but at this stage i feel more detai;s will come to light that will cast further questions over other people’s knowledge of this truly horrendous case of evil and abuse.
(31) 10 May 2008 at 2:42 am
Juliet
I am also obsessed with this case because I to want to know that the victims will be OK and well cared for. It is just such a horrific story, so incredibly hideous that I think many of us just want some kind of happy ending. Fritzl is not insane, everything he did was too planned out, too well thought out, too controlled. He knew what he was doing, but he just didn’t care. He is the ultimate control freak and got off on being master of his little domain. What I am worried about is the trial, if there is a trial. I can’t imagine they would make Elizabeth or her children testify and be cross examined. Isn’t it obvious enough what happened? Hopefully a judge and the lawyers will make some type of deal and justice will be served without a trial. It happens for the majority of cases in the US, most criminal cases never see a full blown trial. The defendant and their lawyers make a deal. Other than insanity (which I highly doubt he would win) he has no defense, the evidence is right there. It is just a matter of details, and personally I believe 100% of what Elizabeth is saying. She apparently told her friends that she was raped as a child, and why would she lie at this point? What good would it do her? Yet he has lied repeatedly, over and over again. Just throw the man in jail and take his assets and give them to his victims. If I were Joseph I would try to remain in custody as long as possible. Where is he going to go if he is let out? Live with his other adult children? Live with his wife? In his home? Or with other relatives? If he gets out, someone is going to try to kill him, and I am not saying I am advocate for such violence, but it is fairly obvious that he would be a target.
(32) 10 May 2008 at 11:06 am
trish
Irene, I fervently hope the same as you, although our religious beliefs are different. If you spend your life in hatred, you waste your life. I believe Josef Fritzl should never be released into the public world again - he is far too dangerous, but I feel that that is punishment enough. If we call for more, as Sandie says, we’re only venting our own vengeance.
(33) 11 May 2008 at 6:49 pm
kelly
This is the most horrible story I ever read/heard. I am almost obssesed as I am looking every day for more news about it.
I am thinking of the time between 1984 and now…where I was, what I did……….while someone, another human being was tortured, raped, etc……….loosing the sense of time, etc
It is easy to make comments after comments. We do not know many things. Elizabeth gave us few information.
Someone made a comment here that the crime was “in family”, that she still referred to him as “her father”. YES she referred to him as “my father” because she WROTE that note under pressure. He told her what to write !
I read everything possible about this story. This guy planned everything very careful everything that he is telling us now is still part of his scenario !
I do not ike his wife at all ! Why she did not do anything while he was away in his vacations ? Why she did not complain to here family- older childern who left home, sister, AUTHORITIES ? She should have tried to go in the basement while he was away !!!!!!
I remember that in one article they wrote that she used to go in vacations woith the other girls…..while poor little Elizabeth HAD to stay home with her father. WHY DID Rosemarie accepted this ?????
She could see from the very beginning that Joseph is treated her daughter very different !!!!!
I am really scared of what we are going to find out in the future !!!!!!
Elizabeth did not tell us the whole story - how she survived there, etc
From what I understood they only had TV later, much later…………as if it did make a difference !!!!! GUYS, jOSEPH TORTURED THEM PHSYHICALLY !!!!! They were “allowed” to find out about the other world but they knew, especially Elizabeth that they could not get there ever. HORROR.
(34) 12 May 2008 at 5:57 am
Aileen
Fritzl can be crazy without being stupid. The fact that he planned all these horrible things so well does not mean he is not crazy. There was also no one going against him, they did not project from their own experiences that there was this evil going on, so there may have been some curiosity, but not suspicion. It’s beyond normal imagination, isn’t it? He said he is “not a monster, he could have killed them”, well, also he could have NOT raped her, and raised her with love and made sure she had an education! He does not have an inkling about an appropriate loving family relationship, how to prepare one for and help in, finding a loving life mate for marriage. Many perpetrators have been sexually abused and are often re-creating down to the detail, what happened to them. Many rapists were sexually abused by their mothers. I just pray for them. Is anyone interested in seeing if we can DO something other than just write these, for these people? Make contributions to some fund for them? Write to them at the hospital like the villagers who have made those banners and signed their good wishes to the family? Doing something proactive will help with this compassionate feeling.
(35) 12 May 2008 at 3:19 pm
Sara
It’s scary to think that perhaps the same scenario is happening to someone else RIGHT NOW, in some part of the world, unbeknownst to anyone but his/her torturer.
Josef Fritzl is a lot like Adolf Hitler - no compassion for humanity…just pure evil. I think his pleads for insanity or his Nazi influence are just excuses. There IS something wrong with his brain, but it’s obvious he knew what he was doing because he was smart enough to manipulate this whole thing, and he actually took time (seven years) to build the dungeon before locking his daughter away in there.
I feel badly for Elizabeth Fritzl, and nothing can bring back the 24 years she has lost. I’m an 18-year old girl myself, and probably she is still an 18-year old too on the inside, not having had much education/experiences/nutrition to allow her to grow and mature like a normal 42-year old. The children are also obviously victims too, and I’m horrified they had to go through this ordeal, never having felt the sun on their skin, never hearing music or reading books. Their whole existence was hell - the cellar was literally hell on earth.
I think that just as people all over the world donate or contribute some form of aid to victims of natural disasters like the Tsunami, or terrorists attacks like 9/11, so should we do something to help these people heal. I don’t know what or how, but just something. Psychologically, however, if it were me who had to endure this suffering, I could not go on and would rather be dead.
(36) 12 May 2008 at 7:03 pm
sandie
Yes Aileen, I agree…to do something positive would be good. Anger is a form of energy that can either be put to bad use….as in whining, dwelling, demanding revenge, actively seeking revenge etc…..or it is a form of energy that can be put to good use…..many a good song has been born of anger, and some inventions as well. Collectively we could put the energy to good use and let this family know that people all over the world care, on a personal level, about their wellbeing and are willing to help. I sew quilts and would be willing to sew….anyone else got any other suggestions? I would like to do something tangible.
(37) 12 May 2008 at 9:05 pm
sarah
I won’t say much, my only concern is during trial if they allow the older children [kerstin and stefan ] to be cross examined and ask how bad is their father they might have a divided opinion. From birth these children were already in prison, in that cellar they created a tremendous bond with their father. They don’t understand much or feel how it is like to be out with no comparison being experienced.So,because it’s the world they knew it is possible that whenever their father came down to see them for them it was a blessing, that these children were jumping for joy, for them their father was an angel or a santa claus during chrismas as they celebrated it with lots of goodies in his hand but of course for elizabeth it was onother time of torment and misery. my heart cried justice for elizabeth and the dungeon children they are innocent.
(38) 13 May 2008 at 2:56 am
charlotte
I think that what happened is just cruel and unhuman. Well how could a father do that to his own daughter???huh!!!ppl…..yes!!!..his own flesh and blood….i thought that they(fathers)should be our protectors…but then what elizabeth has suffered is beyond father loved….he is a beast from hell…satan’s best friend…coz what he did was so unpredictable,so not what we as children thought that our own fathers could do. What elizabeth’s father did was just horrible!!!!…..leading life with his own flesh and blood…How could he live with that all his life untill now????how could he live a sinfull life???..To Elizabeth and your children may God Bless You and i hope everything goes well in future….i think that Joseph Fritzl should be locked up too and see how it feels to be locked up.
(39) 13 May 2008 at 6:34 am
willis
I hope media spares elizabeth and her kids for years to come …
(40) 13 May 2008 at 3:19 pm
christine wolf
kelly, I believe it is my comment you are referring to when you said she wrote “my father” because Fritzl made her write that. I have studied this case intensely and when she wrote “my father” that was in the note she placed in her daughter’s pocket or purse when she was taken to the hospital. This was the one note that Fritzl did not make Elisabeth write. It was written of her own volition. It appears that Elisabeth by writing those two words “my father” still had a modicum of respect for him and acknowledged who he was. This case is hard for everyone to imagine because it was a “family” crime and there is a much different dynamic at work here.
(41) 13 May 2008 at 4:21 pm
kelly
Yes, Christine, I know……sorry for the confusion. I am reading about the case every day, too. I read the article about the doctor who found the note and started to look for the mother. God bless him ! He was the only one in so many years who HAD a suspicion and DID something !
Now, about this note…I don’t think that you can consider that she felt any trace of respect when she wrote ” my father”. She HAD to be polite as there was a possibility that Joseph might have found the note before doctors did….so she could not afford to reffer to him otherwise. At least, this would be my interpretation…
Apparentely they also found a second note written by her that sounded like a “good bye”.
It is INSANE !!!!!
There are so many things that we do not know, yet. We haven’t heard Elizabeth’s full story, yet. I am scared to hear what she went through, HOW did she survive……..Unbelievable…….everything is beyound human imagination !
(42) 13 May 2008 at 8:11 pm
sonya
I have read the comments about the mother not knowing what was going on. As far as I am concerned , I think that right now it doesn’t really matter if she did.What matters most is that Elisabeth believes she didn’t know. I doubt she could handle the betrayal if it were found out her mother did know something.So I wish they would stop investigating her for Elisabeths sake.
(43) 14 May 2008 at 10:27 am
Irene
Yes, I agree with Kelly about the “my father” note, and in any case it would have been important to make sure the authorities got the right man, even if she did have to refer to Fritzl as “my father”.
I also think i would have been like Sara said, and would have probably died in the cellar , although she did have children to live for, even though every time she looks at those children she will see her father. I pray that she doesnt have to see them as children of rape, but as her own children. Also Charlotte as i am a christian and i pray for fritzl`s forgiveness, I also believe that if he does not truly repent with his whole heart and at least attempt to ammend, then he will suffer in eternal damnation along with the devil and his demons - which of course would be the punishment of God`s judgement on him. (And actually on all of us unless we repent of our sins and forgive others). And to Trish I would say that God is the Perfect Judge, and therefore we can be happy knowing that on the day of Judgement all will get their just deserts because God knows our every motive and any extenuating circumstances. hallelujah!! if we accept His sacrifice in Jesus we are forgiven our sins and will go to an eternity of bliss. That includes Hitler and Fritzl who definitely seem to be similar. But Jesus died for every sin and evil that has ever been committed, including millions of abortions and murders, but it all depends on whether we accept God`s offer of forgiveness or not. This is my belief and understanding.
To be practical: i would like to be Elizabeth`s friend and show her love, kindness, and understanding - maybe we could invite her to a party with all of us there to wish her well? Of course all that may be too much for her and she may prefer not to bother. Maybe we could send her a Christmas present ? What about some luxury items to pamper herself with? Or a trip to Disneyland and some money for her and the children? I`m glad I`m not the only one who constantly tries to empathise with Eilizabeth. God bless, and thanks , all of you…
(44) 14 May 2008 at 4:11 pm
kelly
I just read on msn that Elizabeth’s lawyer is starting legal action against newspapers for violating her privacy.
Please, tell me what do you think about this ?
The whole world was watching the news about her. We could have not learned anything about Elizabeth without media. Why do you have to punish media for revealing the truth ?
To Irene: wonderful ideas ! Even a nice card signed with all the members from this forum will mean a lot to her….I am IN for whatever the rest decides that we can do for Elizabeth.
(45) 15 May 2008 at 2:09 pm
Dawn
I am shocked that Christine Wolf thinks it was a “saving grace” that Elizabeth’s captor was her own father and that she was in (beneath) the family home.
Family are the people you should be able to trust most, home is the one place you should always feel safe. Fathers are meant to protect their children not defile them.
If Elizabeth had been kidnapped by a stranger she could at least have had hopes that her family were searching for her and that she could one day be rescued.
The fact that is was her father who imprisoned her and repeatedly defiled her must have been agonising. She knew that none of her family were searching for her because he had forced her to write letters full of lies.
If she had been rescued after 24 years trapped by a stranger then there could have been joy at reunion with her parents and family. As it is she has a father in jail and a family who have to cope with the horror of knowing that for 24 years they walked through a house where Elizabeth and her children were imprisoned downstairs. That they shared time, holidays, meals and freedom with a “patriarch” who afterwards headed off to rape his daughter in front of their children.
Considering Elizabeth says he started to rape her when she was 11 and she wasn’t safe living in his house I doubt it was much comfort to know he was raising 3 of their children upstairs.
Also there is a huge difference between respect which has been earned through loving casre and the respect created by fear after years of abuse. Abusers generally use their “charm” to lure and keep victims. Fritzl had chains and cellar walls to keep Elizabeth.
(46) 15 May 2008 at 2:17 pm
Dawn
Kelly,
The media didn’t rescue Elizabeth.
They only became aware of case after the fact.
The only difference the media attention makes to Elizabeth and her children is the complete loss of anonymity.
The swell of puplic sympathy and good wishes is wonderful. I’m sure we all hope that Elizabeth and her children will be able to rebuild their lives but surely that is made harder for them by the fact that everyone knows all the intimate details of their ordeal.
Elizabeth spent more than 24 years “owned” by her father.
Currently Elizabeth’s life story is “owned” by the media in the name of truth.
Surely she has a right to privacy.
(47) 15 May 2008 at 4:22 pm
kelly
Dawn: I DID NOT SAY THAT MEDIA RESCUED ELIZABETH ! Please, do not missinterpret my message. You did the same with Christine’s message !!!!
The truth of Elizabeth’s life was covered for much too long….nobody cared or asked questions before !!!! That’s why this horrible story took place.
(48) 15 May 2008 at 9:30 pm
Dawn
Kelly, you said that “We could not have learned anything about Elizabeth without media. Why do you have to punish the media for telling the truth.”
“WE” as in the wider world could not have learned about Elizabeth without the media but the media didn’t release her from her prison, she wasn’t rescued from her father because of the media. The media could cover the story without going into graphic detail. Appealing for her privacy is not about punishing the media. My point was that Elizabeth had already been freed when her story hit the press. She has no particular reason to feel grateful to media and every reason to want privacy.
Perhaps I have misinterpreted Christine’s post. I certainly hope I have because after several re-readings it still appears to me that Christine is saying it is somehow a “saving grace” (Christine’s own words) that it was a “family crime”. I can’t believe it was any comfort to Elizabeth that she was repeatedly raped by her OWN FATHER rather than a stranger.
(49) 16 May 2008 at 4:35 am
kelly
Dawn: your level of understanding is not very high ! No more comments ! Good bye !